Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2022)

[Blaze]

I can't wait to see the full adaptation to PnP, especially if you finally put Eldritch Glaive for warlocks, which is already scripted but for some reason it's not on bgtscc.

As for the armor class, on one hand removing the dodge cap would help all builds to have more AC, on the other hand it would make it impossible for wizards / sorcerers and warlocks to use their RTA/MTA spells against anyone.

[EasternCheesE]

I can't wait to see the full adaptation to PnP, especially if you finally put Eldritch Glaive for warlocks, which is already scripted but for some reason it's not on bgtscc.

As for the armor class, on one hand removing the dodge cap would help all builds to have more AC, on the other hand it would make it impossible for wizards / sorcerers and warlocks to use their RTA/MTA spells against anyone.

Not many builds can even reach current dodge cap. Quite a dozen specific things does grant dodge AC in first place and most pure melee/rogues/arcane casters/rangers don't have access to it.
Speaking of eldritch glaive, warlocks already sit at very comfortable position compared many other classes and giving them eldritch blast x3/round would make them totally imbalanced, worse than MotLD was.

[Bobthehero]

The announced changes will make it a lot easier to hit the Dodge cap.

[Steve]

Not really. In PF: Kingmaker, you cast the spell as a standard action, and deliver it as a... I wanna say free action. Quick action? It's the one-per-turn variety, either way.

Or if you're a magus, you get to cast the spell as part of your full attack action. Regongar could be pretty deadly, putting Shocking Grasp on his scimitar before hacking away at the enemy...

Problem is we are not playing Pathfinder mate!

[Tanlaus]

Not really. In PF: Kingmaker, you cast the spell as a standard action, and deliver it as a... I wanna say free action. Quick action? It's the one-per-turn variety, either way.

Or if you're a magus, you get to cast the spell as part of your full attack action. Regongar could be pretty deadly, putting Shocking Grasp on his scimitar before hacking away at the enemy...

Problem is we are not playing Pathfinder mate!

Everything we do in a real time engine is an approximation of the rule set. We’re not really playing D&D either.

[DaloLorn]

Not really. In PF: Kingmaker, you cast the spell as a standard action, and deliver it as a... I wanna say free action. Quick action? It's the one-per-turn variety, either way.

Or if you're a magus, you get to cast the spell as part of your full attack action. Regongar could be pretty deadly, putting Shocking Grasp on his scimitar before hacking away at the enemy...

Problem is we are not playing Pathfinder mate!

Despite initially being conceived as a real-time-only game, Kingmaker's turn-based mode is easily the single most faithful adaptation of a PnP ruleset I've had the pleasure of playing... and proponents of Pathfinder often nickname it "D&D 3.75e". In the absence of clearer phrasing in the 3.5e SRD, I feel pretty comfortable borrowing from a solid adaptation of the next best thing.

[Steve]

Everything we do in a real time engine is an approximation of the rule set. We’re not really playing D&D either.

Then let’s admit there is no real reference point and all decisions are made subjectively from whomever currently holds the keys.

[Steve]

Not really. In PF: Kingmaker, you cast the spell as a standard action, and deliver it as a... I wanna say free action. Quick action? It's the one-per-turn variety, either way.

Or if you're a magus, you get to cast the spell as part of your full attack action. Regongar could be pretty deadly, putting Shocking Grasp on his scimitar before hacking away at the enemy...

Problem is we are not playing Pathfinder mate!

Despite initially being conceived as a real-time-only game, Kingmaker's turn-based mode is easily the single most faithful adaptation of a PnP ruleset I've had the pleasure of playing... and proponents of Pathfinder often nickname it "D&D 3.75e". In the absence of clearer phrasing in the 3.5e SRD, I feel pretty comfortable borrowing from a solid adaptation of the next best thing.

Okay. But what you say is just distracting from my point: spell casting is a standard action. Ranged attack is a standard action. A PC can only make ONE standard action per round (+ move or free action).

It’s being determined by Staff that an RTA is not melee, but STILL an attack. And, that an RTA spell is two independent actions: cast then point-and-shoot.

Thus, TWO ROUNDS if you want to get picky, or, want to read the “rules” to favor a reading of them over another.

[EasternCheesE]

Everything we do in a real time engine is an approximation of the rule set. We’re not really playing D&D either.

Then let’s admit there is no real reference point and all decisions are made subjectively from whomever currently holds the keys.

There is a reference point, and we try to stick to PnP as close as possible. But we also remember it's not a turn-based game we play, so if something works well in PnP, it may not work well in nwn2 engine or be straight unbalanced, so we develop our own ideas there.
It's just not "all PnP" or "all non-PnP". We care to stick to PnP sources where it's applicable well without breaking real-time game.

[Steve]

Everything we do in a real time engine is an approximation of the rule set. We’re not really playing D&D either.

Then let’s admit there is no real reference point and all decisions are made subjectively from whomever currently holds the keys.

There is a reference point, and we try to stick to PnP as close as possible. But we also remember it's not a turn-based game we play, so if something works well in PnP, it may not work well in nwn2 engine or be straight unbalanced, so we develop our own ideas there.
It's just not "all PnP" or "all non-PnP". We care to stick to PnP sources where it's applicable well without breaking real-time game.

But of course. It’s just, as you say, a “we” and a not We, on BGTSCC. Get it?

[EasternCheesE]

Then let’s admit there is no real reference point and all decisions are made subjectively from whomever currently holds the keys.

There is a reference point, and we try to stick to PnP as close as possible. But we also remember it's not a turn-based game we play, so if something works well in PnP, it may not work well in nwn2 engine or be straight unbalanced, so we develop our own ideas there.
It's just not "all PnP" or "all non-PnP". We care to stick to PnP sources where it's applicable well without breaking real-time game.

But of course. It’s just, as you say, a “we” and a not We, on BGTSCC. Get it?

by "we" i mean currently active devs and Rhifox who is dev/admin.

[Tanlaus]

Everything we do in a real time engine is an approximation of the rule set. We’re not really playing D&D either.

Then let’s admit there is no real reference point and all decisions are made subjectively from whomever currently holds the keys.

Maybe, but they are made in good faith

[Kitunenotsume]

Okay. But what you say is just distracting from my point: spell casting is a standard action. Ranged attack is a standard action. A PC can only make ONE standard action per round (+ move or free action).

It’s being determined by Staff that an RTA is not melee, but STILL an attack. And, that an RTA spell is two independent actions: cast then point-and-shoot.

Thus, TWO ROUNDS if you want to get picky, or, want to read the “rules” to favor a reading of them over another.

Out of the interests of clarity, it is worth citing the 3.5 SRD here, with appropriate lined emphasised:

Touch
You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

[. . .]

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge
In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

Source: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOvervie ... .htm#range

---

Touch Spells in Combat
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Source: https://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm

As part of the spell, you can touch as many targets as the spell permits that are within reach. These are all Touch Attacks* , and for RTAs this 'reach' is the listed range of the spell or ability.
Alternatively, instead of making that touch you can "hold the charge" to another action or round, in which case you make a proper Attack action, with the spell considered your weapon.

The latter source was the paragraph above what you cited in an earlier post.

* : Even if the target is willing, such as Cure spells, but usually such willing targets are subject to SR (unless voluntarily lowered), and forgo their AC roll and any AoO or other consequences they might be permitted. Technically, Cure spells and other touch-buffs can critically heal, just as they can critically damage undead but for many such spells crits have no practical effect.

[Steve]

Everything we do in a real time engine is an approximation of the rule set. We’re not really playing D&D either.

Then let’s admit there is no real reference point and all decisions are made subjectively from whomever currently holds the keys.

Maybe, but they are made in good faith

This I don’t doubt!

[artemitavik]

In the Time of Troubles patch later this month, the DMFI hotbar will be expanded with a new button: Actions. DMFI actions expands the options for RP rolls from skills/abilities/saving throws to also include initiative, mainhand and offhand attack rolls, and displaying your armor class and current/maximum hitpoints. This function will also eventually include damage rolls, healing rolls, and the ability to temporarily disable regeneration effects on the PC (DMs will also have access to this option for DM events where attrition is important for the scene). DMFI skill rolls will also eventually be updated to allow choosing what attribute to use when rolling a skill, as well as opposed skill rolls.








Future additions to this system will include other combat actions, spell cards, and so on.

ooooh, so it will automatically make opposed checks and stuff for RP-hits without actually having to engage with the engine? So we make the roll and can pose off the actual note that says "so and so Melee yadda yadda and hit"?