Horned Devil / Shapechange

[Steve]

So, either a Druid or Spirit Shaman just needs to buff up, Shapechange into a Horned Devil, then completely terrorize anything that comes at it?

And if that gets boring, waiting to wreck something in melee, just Return to Original Form, and click Vampiric Feast (if you've been smart enough to take that Epic Feat).

Can I get a witness?

[Facade]

You don't even have to return to original form. You can use the quick-cast option to use magic in devil form. As an example, Aeb'el does this all the time, and he's one of the strongest characters on BG. It's how he beats up the Epic Bosses.
Ask anybody who's fought the White Dragon with him. He can tank and cast and heal and buff... ALL at the same time. It kind of makes other toons feel useless, but it's amazing to watch!

Spirit Shaman/Monk is definitely the way you want to go.

[DM Ditto]

As a clarification, it should be noted that under the General Server Rules, using the Quickcast GUI to cast spells while shapeshifted is considered an exploit and it's best not to do that again.

The only exception to this rule is wildshaped Druids who have the Natural Spell feat.

[Tsidkenu]

Ah, exploiting the server rules and game mechanics! Make sense now.

*thumbs down*

[Facade]

In my defense, I did not do it myself. I do not have a spirit shaman/monk. I also didn't know about the ruling. It makes sense to me now though.. the casting made him ridiculous OP.

Aeb'el may not know of this rule either, even though he's been here a lot longer than me.
Best give him the benefit of the doubt, in my opinion.

[DM Ditto]

I understand and am aware. Just let him know about that so it doesn't happen again.

It helps to follow the rule of thumb that "if it seems like an exploit, it probably is" and to ask the DM Team if you, or anyone else, is unsure.

Hope this helps!

[Sputnik]

Aeb'el may not know of this rule either, even though he's been here a lot longer than me.
Best give him the benefit of the doubt, in my opinion.

Don't kid yourself; He's WELL aware of both the ruling and the exploit.
The cat's out of the bag now though. ..Hopefully the DMs will put a stop to it.

...............................................................

Steve: You can't go wrong with dragon druid, or failing that.. even a DC druid with natural spell to use in other shapes would fare pretty well compared to many builds here. Dragon druids are freaking monsters!

As for Spirit Shaman, I can't really help you much there because I've never played one. I'd avoid the SS/monk cross though, as the Monk and wisdom AC won't apply to wildshapes anymore soon enough. (if my sources are correct)

There is also the RP angle. Ultimately, do what is fun for you.

[Rhifox]

So, either a Druid or Spirit Shaman just needs to buff up, Shapechange into a Horned Devil, then completely terrorize anything that comes at it?

And if that gets boring, waiting to wreck something in melee, just Return to Original Form, and click Vampiric Feast (if you've been smart enough to take that Epic Feat).

Can I get a witness?

You won't "completely terrorize" anything more than any other decent melee type, unless you're going for a very specific build (incorporating classes like monk to pump your shifted AC) and exploiting the quickcast bug. On a pure-ish shaman you can get around 46 AC in Nightwalker form with undead immunities, 36-38 AB and an average of around 30 damage per hit. Horned Devil deals less damage but gets more health and the 5 HP per round regen to make up for it.

So it's definitely nice, especially for pure shamans. But unless you're pulling an Aeb'el, there's stronger stuff out there.

[Steve]

I was playing around in JEGs with a Spirit Shaman / Monk / Sacred Fist / Hierophant. So much fun!

At lvl 30, I could pre-buff, summon the Epic Gate, buff it, turn into a Horned Devil, and just trounce everything that JEGs could send me, which is stuff much harder to beat than what is on BGTSCC (though BGTSCC might have Epic Bosses with ridiculous HP, but that's necessary).

I didn't even think of using spells while shaped—which goes to show you what I know!—and like I said, returned to Original Form just to utilize Vampiric Feast because I did, indeed, get bored watching the Horned Devil swing and miss more-than-not, though nothing could seem to touch it.

My toon was at 61 AC, 34 AB w/ 7 attacks, and a boatload of different dmg types because of buffs + Sacred Fist.

If you look at those stats above, they're not so much higher than some other Tier 1 builds, however, Horned Devil gives all those Immunities, plus, regen (which one can also cast Regenerate as a buff, and have 15 HP per round for 3 minutes!).

I'm in love with Spirit Shaman now!

[Lockonnow]

is that bug?

[kkrazlite]

Would be better if you took out the Sacred Fist because in shape change form it count's towards the AB penalty for Scared Fist for using a "Natural Weapon" So you take a -9 AB penalty.

Just my two cents.

[Steve]

Would be better if you took out the Sacred Fist because in shape change form it count's towards the AB penalty for Scared Fist for using a "Natural Weapon" So you take a -9 AB penalty.

Just my two cents.

Really? That seems unnecessary and buggy, considering Devil hands still make fists!!

But then it's even more awesome that this build can take a -9 AB and still be a god destroyer.

[dedude]

If you don't use exploits, shapechange really isn't overpowered at all. You are making a build and looking at it at lvl 30 saying, wow this build can beat stuff up really well. Guess what, most builds at lvl 30 are very strong, and I can show you plenty of builds much stronger than SS with shapechange. Easiest example is a standard druid build, which basically is top dog in everything.

Keep in mind that before your SS gets lvl 9 spells, he will be pretty weak in melee, and once he does get lvl 9 and use shapechange, he can't use spells or items (unless you cheat of course).

[Steve]

I know about other lvl 30 builds being strong. Maybe even stronger than a Spirit Shaman.

So...we're talking about Horned Devil form, in combo with Druid spells! It's sick. And I didn't even have to use exploit-y tactics.

BTW, my build was slaying hard BEFORE it got shape change. I was just laughing my arse off once it did!

[WhatsInTheBox]

Someone was telling me that with some kind of shape changing with spirit shaman or druid you could get a 91 AC even on this server... now I'm FAIRLY certain that person was lieing or just trying to mess with me but.... I thought I'd ask anyhow