TWF Adventurer Build Critique Wanted!

[Caelin]

Hello all!

I've been working on this build for a little while now, trying to get the right feel/balance for it. The idea was a two-weapon fighting adventurer who has traveled all over seeking fortune and excitement. Having decent sneak/lock/trap disarming was important, as was being able to handle a fight well.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?280253

It was a squeeze to get all the necessary feats in, and lots of juggling to handle skill points. I'm open to suggestions!

The main key concepts to me are:

1) Can handle traps and locks and stuff
2) Fights with two blades
3) Is hardy/resourceful - can handle himself at higher levels without needing a lot from other people

[adobongmanok]

-Epic skill focus is not implemented this server. Or I sure hope so since I couldn't pick it for the last 2 builds...

-Consider Luck of Heroes on first level? It's a pretty good feat especially for melee I think.

[Caelin]

On the build notes, it should point out some feat changes. Dervish has different requirements here than on nwn2db. I'm the build, luck of Heroes is planned.


Good catch on epic skill focus, thanks.

[Steve]

I'd consider dropping Dervish 10 and take Whirling Dervish 10, for the Teleportation. It would give you an "oh shit" button for when your build is getting its arse handed to it by an Epic Boss! WHO'S THE BOSS?!?

I also think your AB is 2 pts too high, and your AC is 2 pts too low!

[Thorsson]

I also think your AB is 2 pts too high, and your AC is 2 pts too low!

Actually the AB shown is 2 points higher than it really is due to the way the builder handles OTWF.

AC is also 2 points lower than shown, because Protective Ward isn't given free on BGTSCC and Tempest Defence only gives 2AC.

Otherwise it will have the usual problems of Dervishes when it reaches higher levels - when it runs out of dances the rest timer may still have some while to run.

[Caelin]

By my calculations it'll have the following:

42 AB without Dervish Dance, 47 with.

48 AC, 51 with CE, 54 with ICE.

If I drop 1 level of Dervish to get WD 10, I lose an AC, lose 2d6 burst damage and gain the teleport.

[Hendrak]

does TW defense and Imp.TW defense stack with shield wand for +6 shield bonus? if not i would let go from them.

Imp.TW defense = ArmorSkin
TW defense = great fortitude?

[chad878262]

Since you don't have survival points to make tracking worth it you are better off going F6 over R6... Unless you want to drop DEX down to 14 (which is an option if you stay Ranger) you can take TWF, ITWF and Toughness as Fighter feats with your current build and you have a 4th Feat to spare.

Also, I would argue you don't lose much by dropping Tempest 5 in favor of WD10. Whirlwind is nice and all, but you don't necessarily want to be surrounded by tons of mobs with this build so in most cases you won't use it. Teleport from WD 10 is far more useful then 1 AB and Whirlwind/Tempest Whirlwind unless it's important for RP purposes.

If you do want to stick with Ranger I highly recommend you drop DEX To 14 or 15, use a +4 or +3 DEX item and Mithral Chainmail. Going for 15 DEX is not a bad idea because you might find a +3 DEX Ring or other slot so you can use bracers for a +4 Armor bracers (it's unlikely you can find +4 Mithral Chainmail and the one +3 you can buy is VERY expensive). Your current build can use +3 DEX item and Mithral Breastplate which have some options for +2 and +4 that you can purchase.

Also, TWD/ITWD is the 'mundane' shield AC so it does stack with the 4 magical shield AC from the spell/wand/potion.

[Thorsson]

By my calculations it'll have the following:

42 AB without Dervish Dance, 47 with.

48 AC, 51 with CE, 54 with ICE.

If I drop 1 level of Dervish to get WD 10, I lose an AC, lose 2d6 burst damage and gain the teleport.

I agree that WD10 isn't worth it for Dervish 10, but I like the suggestion of dropping Tempest 5 rather more.

Note that with ICE AB is 6 lower. Of course you can always use consumables or get a buff.

What I'm not understanding is the points invested into Hide/MS. You're a poor sneaker with little sneak attack and you have neither HiPS nor Feint. OTOH you could do with better detection skills so you're not sneaked. In fact your skills are a bit higgledy-piggledy.

[Theodore01]

Another way could be - using finesseable weapons (handaxes) and deadly defense (d4 damage), aim for and dex25+ and Perfect TWF.

F12/Dervish10,Temp5,SD3 or Ro3 works well.

The dance duration is capped here, can't remember the excact skill that is enough- but 33 more than you need.

Without search you wont find many traps.

[Caelin]

I agree that WD10 isn't worth it for Dervish 10, but I like the suggestion of dropping Tempest 5 rather more.

Note that with ICE AB is 6 lower. Of course you can always use consumables or get a buff.

What I'm not understanding is the points invested into Hide/MS. You're a poor sneaker with little sneak attack and you have neither HiPS nor Feint. OTOH you could do with better detection skills so you're not sneaked. In fact your skills are a bit higgledy-piggledy.

Well, the h/ms is there for two reasons - flavor but also the ability to sneak up on a lot of magic users. I don't expect he'll be able to be a great sneak in the tougher epic level areas. But there's a decent amount of times a solid h/ms can save you a good chunk of damage getting close to some bosses.

ICE to me is more of an emergency stop-gap in this build. Slap it on to survive until your party can help you.

Since you don't have survival points to make tracking worth it you are better off going F6 over R6... Unless you want to drop DEX down to 14 (which is an option if you stay Ranger) you can take TWF, ITWF and Toughness as Fighter feats with your current build and you have a 4th Feat to spare.

The final build has survival. Not to amazing levels, but solid. I didn't completely flesh out the skill points the nwn2db. The problem with that is WD becomes more difficult - I can't add the first level of it until level 14? Then my spare feat that I got has to go to Able Learner, unless I want to waste a lot of skill points.

Also, I would argue you don't lose much by dropping Tempest 5 in favor of WD10. Whirlwind is nice and all, but you don't necessarily want to be surrounded by tons of mobs with this build so in most cases you won't use it. Teleport from WD 10 is far more useful then 1 AB and Whirlwind/Tempest Whirlwind unless it's important for RP purposes.

This is good thinking. Do you thinking the lost AB is much of a difference maker? It'll be AB 41 instead of 42.

If you do want to stick with Ranger I highly recommend you drop DEX To 14 or 15, use a +4 or +3 DEX item and Mithral Chainmail. Going for 15 DEX is not a bad idea because you might find a +3 DEX Ring or other slot so you can use bracers for a +4 Armor bracers (it's unlikely you can find +4 Mithral Chainmail and the one +3 you can buy is VERY expensive). Your current build can use +3 DEX item and Mithral Breastplate which have some options for +2 and +4 that you can purchase.

With this planned build, a +3 dex gets me to 20, and then thee's the +4 mithral BP in Avernus. THat's a much cheaper build plan than shooting for +4 dex

[chad878262]

Well, the h/ms is there for two reasons - flavor but also the ability to sneak up on a lot of magic users. I don't expect he'll be able to be a great sneak in the tougher epic level areas. But there's a decent amount of times a solid h/ms can save you a good chunk of damage getting close to some bosses.

You need WAY more hide to be able to sneak up on any boss.

ICE to me is more of an emergency stop-gap in this build. Slap it on to survive until your party can help you.

There are better/more useful picks for your build... If you plan to party up then if you are getting bashed it's best to just run until the tank picks up the agro. However, if you want ICE go for it.

The final build has survival. Not to amazing levels, but solid. I didn't completely flesh out the skill points the nwn2db. The problem with that is WD becomes more difficult - I can't add the first level of it until level 14? Then my spare feat that I got has to go to Able Learner, unless I want to waste a lot of skill points.

fair enough, still wouldn't worry about taking stealth beyond the requirements unless you are going to dedicate significant gear to getting it up to at least ~65-70 hide/ms. Otherwise I would try to focus on getting spot or listen higher.

This is good thinking. Do you thinking the lost AB is much of a difference maker? It'll be AB 41 instead of 42.

Neither is great, but nor is it terrible. You have Expose Weakness to help out and of course can always swig a potion of (greater) heroism when you need to. Anything over 40 w/ EW is workable for a TWF build.

With this planned build, a +3 dex gets me to 20, and then thee's the +4 mithral BP in Avernus. THat's a much cheaper build plan than shooting for +4 dex

Sure, but it also makes some of your other stats kind of "meh"... The Mithral Chainmail is +3 and you could get a wand of IMA and try and by a regular Mithral Chainmail for cheaper if you want. I suppose it depends if you are ok with dump stats where they are. Those extra points from dropping DEX down to 14 or 15 instead of 17 would allow for a bit more well rounded character, but it really is just up to how you want your character to look in the end.

[Hawke]

Rogue/Wizard/Harper Mage(or Arcane Trickster)/Daggerspell mage

400 skill points and you can probably squeeze about a 31, maybe even 32 AB out of it more if you want to sacrifice things. Epic spells, decent DCs, and you don't have to rely on anyone.

Pick any lock, recover most if not all traps.

Done and Done.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?266860

The build is just a blueprint... I made it more caster oriented,,, you can make it more melee oriented easily.

[Caelin]

The problem if I drop the dex down is then I can't access the twd and itwd feats. Lose 2 ac right off the bat.

[chad878262]

Can't access the builder from work, but do you have Protective Ward in the build? If going Ranger that is an option... What about CE / ICE? might not always be able to use them, but the subtraction from AB for bonus to AC might be acceptable in many cases.

15 DEX is enough for TWD, so you could go that route plus Protective Ward if you are sticking with Ranger as the base class.