Faux Detect Evil By Smite Evil And Holy Sword

[MopKnight]

I got put into an unusual situation this evening on my paladin, Reine. Simply put, I was asked to perform a Smite Evil on a character who wanted to be proven not evil, despite their having been proven evil previously, some time back, by a previous Smite.

I did perform this - I have yet to see any DM rulings on the matter - simply because the player themselves seemed to think it was holding back their character. However, I profoundly disliked this from an OOC sense, simply because it felt so incredibly metagamey. Both sides of it did - a succeeding Smite Evil or a failed Smite Evil effectively determining what a paladin can judge about a character.

It got me thinking. It isn't just the Smite ability. It is also the holy damage inflicted by Holy Sword. This gives a callback to the Detect Evil spell from PnP.

Simply put the questions I want to ask are the following.

• 
  Is information from Smite Evil known to the paladin?
• If it is not, is there a way of regulating the use of this ability in this manner?
  
• If this is intended, would the DMs instead consider some fair implementation of Detect Evil instead of this detection via Smiting?

[Maecius]

I'll let the current team make the decision here, since I'm not sure how they see it. But I remember falling a paladin over this way back in the day.

The way I saw it was that you're essentially attempting to execute someone without proof of their wrongdoing.

To me, swinging a weapon at someone without it being clear that they deserve to die is the opposite of a lawful good action.

It's also been previously ruled that smites are not supposed to be used as a detect evil/detect good stand-in, though I don't see anything about it in the DM Rulings thread, so it's possible that has changed. Or it may be covered in the server rules under metagaming. Again, going to defer to the current DM team on that one. Just providing a historical perspective here.

[DM Theophanies]

Use of smite evil in this manner is basically a mechanical exploit and a breach of paladin roleplay. There are no equivalents to detect evil as much as there are no equivalents to any of the alignment detecting spells or spells to mask your alignment. There is nothing that can be used in roleplay between players as a substituent for detect evil though depending on the DM they may permit the use of the ability during events (though that is up to the discretion of the DM).

[DM Golem]

The position remains as Maecius suggests, Smite Evil should not be used as a Detect Evil on the cheap. We have largely considered this as metagaming, as the information would not feedback like that (Can you even smite without the intent to judge/kill? No, probably not. And if you are smiting someone without knowing you should, you fall, so...should the smite work? ).

This has not come up recently, however - not since the DM ruling thread was begun. I think its best that for clarity it is put in the ruling thread so the position is clear.

Answers to questions:

- Is information from Smite Evil known to the paladin? Not in these "testing" situations. Thus using Smite to detect alignment is metagaming.

- If it is not, is there a way of regulating the use of this ability in this manner? See above. Use in this way is prohibited as metagaming.

- If this is intended, would the DMs instead consider some fair implementation of Detect Evil instead of this detection via Smiting? We will not implement Detect Evil without balancing that with alignment masking spells.

If Detect Evil went in, we would likely offer RP guidance to minimize potential issues.

As Theophanies suggests, at the discretion of a DM, Detect Evil can be used in events. We are cautious, however, due to the lack of alignment masking spells.

[Silver_Lining]

As Theophanies suggests, at the discretion of a DM, Detect Evil can be used in events. We are cautious, however, due to the lack of alignment masking spells. [/color]

How can someone go about requesting a Detect Evil be used on them in an event, if they have no desire to 'mask' their alignment and are fine and willing to not resist the spell what so ever?

[DM Golem]

Its not that sort of thing we would use it for normally. It would be more for revealing the town mayor was a shape changed demon or the like.

[JCVD1]

There is a spell, a cleric one , Awaken Sin, that only damages evil foes. If it's not an evil creature, it deals no damage. So, using that spell instead, is it still metagaming?

Here goes the RP

"I shall summon your inner evil and by *insert Goodie god'S name* if your heart and soul are good, you shan't feel the wrath of *said god*."

[Rhifox]

As Theophanies suggests, at the discretion of a DM, Detect Evil can be used in events. We are cautious, however, due to the lack of alignment masking spells.

Could not Protection from Evil/Good be used as alignment masking spells?

[DM Golem]

There is a spell, a cleric one , Awaken Sin, that only damages evil foes. If it's not an evil creature, it deals no damage. So, using that spell instead, is it still metagaming?

Here goes the RP

"I shall summon your inner evil and by *insert Goodie god'S name* if your heart and soul are good, you shan't feel the wrath of *said god*."

This actually got flagged up with us. We'll discuss it, as its slightly different to the smite issue.

[Atlas]

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[Uther3867]

or you go on your gut instincts like i do i only had Detect evil once on a server but normally i go by DM's Discretion and most of the time go with my gut if there evil or not. true some evil can be very good at deception and lies, but at the core if you get to see how they act enough times you can get a certain vibe from them.

that's just my personal opinion