On the value of Lore - how many skill points to have?

[Rhifox]

Granted every single Bard I come across RPs their high lore as knowing everything. Makes me cringe every time. . .

Well, now they will have to invest far more points into multiple lore skills if they want to know everything.

[Calantyr]

Do all these new different lore aspects have (or will get) any mechanical use in game or are they only useful in DM events ?

RP'ing with other players? You don't need a DM present to rolls skills occasionally when a conversation warrants it.

They could also become relevant during NPC quests and/or general exploration if the team has time.

Want to open the secret door to the forgotton tomb? Search is good for Rogues, but History might be good to decipher runes that give instructions.

Need to find a specific plant for cure, but there's loads to choose from in the swamp? Nature knowledge would be good.

etc.

Or you could just use the skills to trigger flavour text and descriptions that a more ignorant character wouldn't. It would be a hell of a lot of work to go back through every area and add stuff like this, so I doubt it would be a priority.

[thids]

Take ten.

AFAIK you cannot take 10 with Knowledge skills. You either know something or you don't. If you should know it, you're making a d20 roll to see if you remember it.

I think you're confusing take ten with try again.

Pretty sure you can take ten on knowledge checks. You can't roll again on them a round later if you failed, however.

Huh I always thought taking 10 is basically re-trying until the game assumes you got it, and I was about to point out how you are WRONG.

But it seems you can take 10 on basically anything, including knowledge checks, as the game assumes you got it on your first try since it's an average roll. That includes Knowledge checks. Take 20 is the one which assumes you tried and failed plenty of times until you rolled a 20.

[Steve]

Knowledge = "trained only" as per DnD.

Knowledge, in terms of scaled rating, is often specialized.

The Lore sub-classes are not specialized enough...so dividing points to Lore: Geology, for example, does that cover all the sub-classes of Geology?!?

So still, though there are basic divisions to Lore now...it still isn't enough to make sense of the DC Scale in the OP.

Especially considering this NWN2 custom of D & D and being able to get to Lvl 30 plus Item bonuses.

[Karond]

And what does this do for bards? Their bonus to Lore probably dumps into Arcana...

I think it bumps it across the board? So the most knowledgable individuals now won't be wizards, it will be EDM bards

[thids]

Bardic Knowledge

A bard may make a special bardic knowledge check with a bonus equal to his bard level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the bard has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)

A successful bardic knowledge check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. A bard may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.

This is how that's supposed to work. Notable people and legendary items seem right up a Bard's alley. For everything else, high int wizards would still trump bards.

[Boddynock]

And what does this do for bards? Their bonus to Lore probably dumps into Arcana...

I think it bumps it across the board? So the most knowledgable individuals now won't be wizards, it will be EDM bards

No, it just goes straight into Lore Arcana. I should be history, and geography at the least, but probably also nobility, arcana, and local. I mentioned this earlier.

[AlwaysSummer Day]

Bardic Knowledge

A bard may make a special bardic knowledge check with a bonus equal to his bard level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the bard has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)

A successful bardic knowledge check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. A bard may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.

This is how that's supposed to work. Notable people and legendary items seem right up a Bard's alley. For everything else, high int wizards would still trump bards.

Sort of. . . in my opinion IC knowledge is one thing I.E. a character who spent there life farming probably knows about agriculture lore even with 0 points invested and a roll of 1. However maybe they don't know about Apple orchards. A d20 roll would help determine if they learned about them in passing or something. However even with a lore skill of 33, 34 base int, and buffs they do not know what is East of cormyr. They simply have not gleaned that knowledge regardless of what a d20 says. Farming and adventuring on the swordcoast =/= world traveled geographer.

I might just be bitter after having 50 bards tell me about the fall of netheril, karatur, the spellplague, where each race comes from, how Bane became a god, and how old ulcasters ruins are. High lore should not give your character access to Google or your lorebooks.

[Boddynock]

That is sort of up to that player. I try not to overdo it on my insanely high lore characters. I have always RPed Liam as a dabbler in the arcane, and now all his lore points are in arcana, plus his bard bonus... But I am not going to decide he has an archamages education overnight just because i can beat just about anyone's lore arcana rolls with an inspiration and a buff or two. If and when I redistribute Liam's actual points, he might get like 5 into arcana, maybe... But his overall check will still be bigger cause bardic knowledge. And that's fine. The choice to use google or sourcebooks to represent your lore is a personal one, that I typically don't make. That being said, it is almost a 100% certainty that your character knows things that you as a player don't as well, and sometimes google fu or a sourcebook should be used to represent that fact.

((Although I have used a historical timeline of Mulhorand's history once or twice, to see what he should know due to being born there and his age, see what he lived through, and whatnot))

[Duster47]

No, it just goes straight into Lore Arcana. I should be history, and geography at the least, but probably also nobility, arcana, and local. I mentioned this earlier.

Your PC's existing Lore Skill points are all in Lore-Arcana. That is the renamed Lore (ID7).

You will need to RCR to re-distribute your Lore points. There either will-be or is (there is soooo much going on behind the curtain) to remap Class/PRC requirements to their more specific Lore requirements. Such as Lore-Religion for preachy classes.

BTW, Good discussion.

FWIW, I have a PC who is both Bard and CK Avowed, I believe our rule-of-thumb, and certainly how I play my PCs, if is she has zero points in one of the specific areas, then she only has common knowledge. I would roll a 1d20 for those instances. If the topic is one where she has point-investment knowledge, then all of those bard inspirations kick in too.

[thids]

What about items with lore bonuses? That goes into arcana as well?

[Boddynock]

What about items with lore bonuses? That goes into arcana as well?

It's my understanding that lore arcance is just Lore, aka the old skill. So items with +lore are in fact going to arcana.

Edit: Looks like that was confirmed by Duster a sec ago as well. Good on me fro reading the entire sentence before posting right? lol

[Rasael]

Subject: Lore Skills and Classes, bugs

FWIW, Rasael started and I finished going through 70 class skill 2da-files. I did my best to follow PnP v3.5 source material where it is available. Others I SWAGed based on prerequisite class or key words in the descriptions....

This is a topic to collect bugs concerning classes that should or shouldn't have certain lore skills.

Please verify with a D&D source whether a specific class should have a certain lore skill before reporting. We will verify as well - but it costs us time to check erroneous bug-reports.

• Classes which get the stock LORE skill will continue to have LORE, but its re branded as Lore (arcana). The lore skills are additive. They don't alter / replace the original class skills and skill requirements.