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Yeah. Probably. Can't lie, there.Akroma666 wrote:
http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/blo ... _Holocaust
Unfortunately, I worry that this thread may have already jumped that shark, and will not prove productive now that it's reached an intimidating five pages in length.
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In other realms, "Common" could be a different form altogether; these were not in fact dialects but different languages. An example was in the Underdark, as the residents there spoke what was known as Undercommon. Inhabitants of different planes also speak different forms of "Common".
From what the FR wiki says about Common, and common tongues, plus what DM Echo posted, it would appear that Fire Elementals speak a "Common" language, called Ignan.The native language of most inhabitants of the Elemental
plane of Fire is Ignan, a sharp, hissing and clicking
language. Those natives who deal with other planes may
speak additional languages. Infernal and the Common
tongue of the Material Plane are often spoken in such
cases.
What does this mean in terms of Elementals? To quote the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elemental.htm); "Air elementals speak Auran, though they rarely choose to do so."You retain your ability to speak if your assumed form has that ability.
Speech is a natural ability (see Part One); however speech has a mental aspect (your brain's ability to handle language) and a physical aspect (working vocal apparatus). You have to have both to speak in an assumed form. Furthermore, your assumed form must be able to speak naturally. If you assume the form of a creature that cannot speak or use language during the normal course of its life, you still lose the ability to speak. This distinction doesn't often come up with the alter self spell (because it doesn't let you assume a form with a type different than your own), but it can with other polymorph effects.
After reading more of this over, I'm beginning to wonder if I should open a thread based on Spellcasting while Polymorphed because after all, rules state;A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)
You retain your spellcasting abilities, but your assumed form might limit what you can do.
You can use spells with verbal components only if you have retained the ability to speak. You can use somatic and material components only if your assumed form has limbs capable of dealing with them.
I know for sure that Tongues is a spell that's available in BG, but I can count the people who slot and use it with one hand and have fingers to spare.Selande wrote:I know we mentioned critters learning languages. Or can be given additional ones. Or even the Awaken spell.
I don't know if that automatically means they speak it though. Just understand it.
Why the hate for mutes?Syracuse wrote:May I ask what it is that's bringing this conclusion that playing mutes is better than playing characters that can speak?
Honest question, just clarifying. I don't get really get it. Doesn't the content of the post dictate the quality of the roleplay, more than just imposed limitations? To me, it seems like saying something like that must mean that everyone writes letters, rather than emails, or doesn't own a cell phone. A better means of conveying words doesn't really equate to 'better roleplay' in my mind.
I thought polymorphed creatures keep the same mental stats as their original form does?I like when people with low intelligence/charisma characters act like their sheet, personally. That seems like a far better limitation than making them mute.
I mean, for my part, I don't care if this ruling is passed or changed, because my main character wouldn't have a problem either way. 
I think the second part of the paragraphis what the DMs intend, if I'm reading it correctly. A polymorphed elemental isn't mute as long as the original form knew the elemental's language(s) in the first place, or there's a friendly caster with a Tongues handy.A paladin isn't allowed to swear by the old rules in 2nd edition, I found that a good limitation in speech as they were forced to constantly conduct themselves in a manner that wouldn't lead them to slipping of the tongue and dropping a expletive despite how frustrated they might become.
Never would I ever! But, if I may a moment.Grimcheese wrote:Why the hate for mutes?
That's my fault there, I should've explained. I didn't mean to say I want mental stats to change with transformation. I meant, that this is the sorts of 'hard' roleplay we need to do. The sorts of limitations our sheets impose.Grimcheese wrote:I thought polymorphed creatures keep the same mental stats as their original form does?I like when people with low intelligence/charisma characters act like their sheet, personally. That seems like a far better limitation than making them mute.
is what the DMs intend, if I'm reading it correctly. A polymorphed elemental isn't mute as long as the original form knew the elemental's language(s) in the first place, or there's a friendly caster with a Tongues handy.A paladin isn't allowed to swear by the old rules in 2nd edition, I found that a good limitation in speech as they were forced to constantly conduct themselves in a manner that wouldn't lead them to slipping of the tongue and dropping a expletive despite how frustrated they might become.
How can you consider that the correct ruling when all the sourcebook evidence in the thread, not some of it, but all of it, supports the opposite of this? Did you read any of the material presented, or are you just sharing your opinion? You are absolutely free to share your opinion, but why should your opinion trump the actual rules and how they are written?Maximvs wrote:I remember reading that no one can talk while polymorphed unless the race allows normal speech. I consider this ruling correct. Elementals don't have proper mouths to speak common. They only speak their own elemental tongue ( ignan for fire elementals, etc ) and it is assumed that these tongues can be spoken with sounds of the elements, like flames burning quickly or shifts of the wind and etc.
What your character says using the in game language system doesn't represent what they really say.
