'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

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Razzaband
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Razzaband »

Face wrote:
Razzaband wrote:Alright so, the "wild west" idea is horrific as it brings up an array of problems that can be detrimental to the overall player base. This being that some people in general do not like pvp such as myself, griefing, pvp abuse, and leaps in logic for roleplay concerning death and injuries unless the server was made permadeath. This will also additionally hinder people from leveling when you have characters coming in and pvping them when they simply want to grind for xp. In addition maybe there should be guards patrolling the road so when you attack someone and npc can come and mop you up for being reckless. At least it will make it possible from going town to town. Lastly you have to consider players that can't even go into town, like my main who can only go into soubar and roaringshore ICly. So what then? Do I just play getting slaughtered every two seconds? Are other players just going to hide into towns and now I can't interact with them or they themselves can't travel anywhere since they will die taking a step out of safety?

Now as for the pvp areas themselves, you must take into consideration that either new areas are added which adds to lag for the entire server, or taking over already existing areas which will limit areas for players who don't want to or like to engage in pvp. Secondly rp wise, most characters would not go into the pvp open area because in a few days rumors would fly about of infamously dangerous areas that at the point of hearing it are bloodbaths. What rational character would walk into there except for I guess characters bloodthirsty for fighting? So the 'assassination' argument doesn't work at all with that in mind. Also what are you going to rp after dying n times, why does your character keep going back to get slaughtered? Soon enough the area will turn into either a desolate area that players don't go into or an area of lvl 30 powerbuilds fighting and griefing each other so this covers a very small percent of the player base. If you want to make the game 'more dangerous' go play a permadeath character then or maybe take death and injuries more seriously into your rp instead of shaking them off in an hour.

I overall agree with the suggestion of putting PVP open into your description or making some fight club group with players. But as you can see this will either add lag, or take away area(s) from the majority of players. Overall the open PvP areas are just selfish imo.
Guild halls are not selfish then? (A open zone wil be open to all players a guild hall is not open to all)
Pve deaths happen so mutch more then pvp deaths. (How do we keep comming back from that)

Yes guild halls are selfish in that regard, however the differentiating factor between the idea of a guild hall and an open PvP area is that one caters to an active contribution of RP with server events and lore by a group of players while the other is more dedicated to combat between small groups of individuals (Usually will be 1vs1). Again this is a RP server not a PvP server. As for PvE deaths happening so much more, unfortunately that is the nature of the server as far as leveling and grinding goes but some players consider most of the grinding OOC. But that matter for ways to level PvE wise is another topic I have issues with and would like to see improvement with.
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Sun Wukong
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Face wrote:Guild halls are not selfish then? (A open zone wil be open to all players a guild hall is not open to all)
People want to leave a mark, and guild hall is a mark of effort. Also, it can provide some shelter from the 'opposing' Sneaky McSneakies - a place where you can be with select few and not get wandering monkey character mucking things up.
Face wrote:Pve deaths happen so mutch more then pvp deaths. (How do we keep comming back from that)
Since coming up explanation as to why a character is not dead after a PvP encounter, well, I have found a satisfactory solution from the Appearance Kit. If one my character dies in PvP, I just change the primary colour motif of their equipment. Moreover, I rarely introduce my characters by name, so upon defeat or victory they can remain as a generic nameless entity to others. Thus even if I do run up to some people again, and again, it is easy to just say that they must have been mistaken. 'All elves/dwarves/halflings/gnomes/orcs/humans look a like, right?'




As for PvP specific area... I would probably just go into the middle of that area, set up a campfire and sit down to wait. You may come alone, or with a group. You may kill my character, or you may sit down and chat. But every now and then, one my many characters would be found there... For you to interact with in whatever way you want. Wouldn't that be fun? I just have the stupidest grin on my face just from thinking about it.
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Heimdallr
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Heimdallr »

a difference between confrontational role-play vs. mechanical "besting" of one Build over another.
If by this you mean that one build will destroy another which won't have any chance...that is pretty logical to me. You cannot be weak and achieve the same as strong ones right? you can choose to build yourself for rp/pvp/pve and it is your choice. Someone killed you as a guild master running a big guild and you had 0 chances as 1v1? you shouldn't run a guild then, or at least be wise and surround yourself with guards.

@Lobo - The realism you talked about was a discussion in last year if I remember correctly, I still think that this isn't something that community would have to grow up to, as it is impossible. This is something that must be forced by rule change(and people will have to adapt which I believe won't be hard) or just leave it be like this time, and make part of people unsatisfied.

As implementing realism on server would resolve most of problems including rp and pve/pvp
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Steve
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Steve »

you can choose to build yourself for rp/pvp/pve
What does one build for on an RP server?

I interpret "Open PvP" as a place for more Player-versus-Player "besting," which means OOC in my interpretation. While that can be fun for Players, it is my interpretation that BGTSCC asks of Players to stay IC at all times, to the best of their ability.

Now, if one wants a "wilderness" Area where anything and everything can happen, but most particularly without general PvP Rules—or a suspension thereof—what is stopping one from posting a Rumor on the Forum along the lines of: "Bandits have taken over the X, and are taking either coin, or taking lives...travel this X at your ultimate risk."

Then camp that Area, waiting to enact conflict. You've already now RP'd hostility, so?!?

Or maybe what I've outlined above is NOT OKAY. If so, then I'll wait patiently on a Head DM response.

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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Face »

Steve wrote:
you can choose to build yourself for rp/pvp/pve
What does one build for on an RP server?

I interpret "Open PvP" as a place for more Player-versus-Player "besting," which means OOC in my interpretation. While that can be fun for Players, it is my interpretation that BGTSCC asks of Players to stay IC at all times, to the best of their ability.

Now, if one wants a "wilderness" Area where anything and everything can happen, but most particularly without general PvP Rules—or a suspension thereof—what is stopping one from posting a Rumor on the Forum along the lines of: "Bandits have taken over the X, and are taking either coin, or taking lives...travel this X at your ultimate risk."

Then camp that Area, waiting to enact conflict. You've already now RP'd hostility, so?!?

Or maybe what I've outlined above is NOT OKAY. If so, then I'll wait patiently on a Head DM response.
Did this last week and it was a blast though a DM did stop by to tell us that if some one doesnt want to rp we should just let them pass aka they where alowed the ooc out.

There is a big difrence with the ooc out and the rp out as the ooc out you can just ignore rp.
I understand it from a DM side though cous they dont want to get pm's of salty people.
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DreWalker
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by DreWalker »

couldn't people just find In character reasons to fight each other? even just asking someone if the want to spar is reason enough inst it?
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Bad Omens
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Bad Omens »

DreWalker wrote:couldn't people just find In character reasons to fight each other? even just asking someone if the want to spar is reason enough inst it?
Sparring would denote cooperation. So yes, for like minded and socially integrated characters would have that opportunity. That does not of course extend to conflict RP. An Orc character who has absolutely no social connection and actually antipathy towards an Elven character is not going to say, "Would you like to spar" and to do so would be OOC, either doing so through chat, or tell.

Actually, one of the best ways to maintain IC pvp is actually to set up an area where conflict RP is anticipated because of established lore for that area. There are only two problems with this, the DM anticipation that players would not behave enough of a civilized and mature manner to permit such an area (which is vaild from their point of view) and that there would not be significant enough consequences for PCs upon death to maintain a level of intrigue.

The former issue I can not attest to, nor do I have a solution other than to say that I am of the opinion that if you build the area properly you should be able to mitigate PvP DM side issues and in fact, I think it might actually help to keep those players who troll for conflict from inflicting issues upon others not like minded. For the latter, I would say again that the script being used for BG Guards sending PCs to jail could be used to send PCs to neutral holding cells, or infirmaries, for which they must stay for up to an hour. That will definitely keep them from rushing back their after dying both literally and figuratively.
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by aaron22 »

steve.. having to RP out is totally OOC. if, in RL, i get in bar fight, i do not have to come to some sort of agreement beforehand that makes sure that both(all) of us are prepared and confirm that a fight is going to occur between us. No. somebody hits and fists fly after that, there is no guarantees of how it will occur and what will become of the winner/loser of said fight. nearly, if not every, PC on the server is a killer. so the campfire is a actually a collection of killers no matter what your RP says about you. so the campfire is something very specificly dangerous. the only real world place that i can think of that would be similar is maybe a max security prison. if you were in a max security prison and didnt want to fight, you would probably not go around talking (#2) and picking fights. In no way is it OOC to have an PC try to kill you for being a A-hole. its totally OOC to have to go through a set of predetermined rules before action can be taken or you will get in trouble from the management.

an RP out order screams to placate crybabies who want to talk tough at the campfire, but use the protection of the server's rules to keep them from being embarrassed in front of their comrades. but so many of you think this open pvp area is something that is just OOC kill zone. to me, i think you are not using your whole imagination and perspective so that it fits inside of a place that you do not want for whatever reason. I (and possibly others) are not trying to recreate CoD IW. we are trying to create a place where player run bandits can thrive. where danger can be around the corner. assassins can lurk and thugs can bully. how exactly are these things OOC. to me, not having them is OOC. In a PnP game, could you run a gang of bandits game? absolutely. is that OOC? no. not being able to is OOC. could you imagine if we had PvE outs for every mob on the server? DUMB.

the thing people are failing to understand is that an open PvP area, i think, would create less OOC greifing. i have never seen any game that utilizes PvP that has so many rules AND so much greifing. maybe we should ask ourselves if these are connected. does placating unnecessary greifing create more unnecessary greifing? i am sure there is a happy medium. i do no think we are there right now. especially considering the tone of the posts on this thread.
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Steve
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Steve »

I know RP outs are OOC with IC lipstick applied.

But BGTSCC also thrives on good sportsmanship, where we as a community give others the benefit to CHOOSE to RP with us, or not.

At this very moment, unless the DMs swoop in and state otherwise, there is no reason why, at this very moment, you or anyone else could IC work towards making an existing Area hostile, at least temporarily.

Conversely, if this Open PvP area was introduced, who could then stop a group of Characters turning it into a Safe zone?!?

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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by aaron22 »

steve. i understand exactly what you are saying. and i am so pleased that you are looking beyond the veil of OOC misconception.

the issue i find in making an area hostile with ic actions is that i think we would run into 2 issues that occur very often in these instances. one being the most obvious. that with the PvP rules set as they are, we will find more and more people just OOC ignoring the hostile banditry. the second would be that players can work at something for months, and it will not get the admin support no matter how many participate. knowing this, players will move away from the pursuit of the goal. and both of these instances would play off each other to an inevitable outcome.
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Razzaband
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Razzaband »

Since there is an appeal for evil characters wanting to be bandits, brutes, and assassins, it would make sense in these areas if they can steal all their victims coin, gear, and items too as it makes RP sense as well. Also allowing permadeath methods or hiding the body well should be a possibility as well. This would make for better more realistic RP no?
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Calodan »

Steve wrote:I know RP outs are OOC with IC lipstick applied.

But BGTSCC also thrives on good sportsmanship, where we as a community give others the benefit to CHOOSE to RP with us, or not.

At this very moment, unless the DMs swoop in and state otherwise, there is no reason why, at this very moment, you or anyone else could IC work towards making an existing Area hostile, at least temporarily.

Conversely, if this Open PvP area was introduced, who could then stop a group of Characters turning it into a Safe zone?!?
Oh God the shit storm of a independent group trying to make an area more dangerous like this.......Look trying to RP that will only work WITH DM SUPPORT. This is because of the rules in place. So there very much is SOMETHING stopping people from doing this because establishing that type of area means ignoring rules that are server rules so by accord it means being a real bandit and risking server ban hammer....
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Face »

Calodan wrote:
Steve wrote:I know RP outs are OOC with IC lipstick applied.

But BGTSCC also thrives on good sportsmanship, where we as a community give others the benefit to CHOOSE to RP with us, or not.

At this very moment, unless the DMs swoop in and state otherwise, there is no reason why, at this very moment, you or anyone else could IC work towards making an existing Area hostile, at least temporarily.

Conversely, if this Open PvP area was introduced, who could then stop a group of Characters turning it into a Safe zone?!?
Oh God the (#2) storm of a independent group trying to make an area more dangerous like this.......Look trying to RP that will only work WITH DM SUPPORT. This is because of the rules in place. So there very much is SOMETHING stopping people from doing this because establishing that type of area means ignoring rules that are server rules so by accord it means being a real bandit and risking server ban hammer....
Not at all you can do some bandit rp follow the rules and try to make it fun for every one not even all that hard to do it just pick a spot and wait for folks.
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by Young Werther »

Anyone remember this? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=48211

I was looking forward to seeing where this went but nuffin' come of it. Sadly I don't think any of this will either.
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Re: 'Wilderness / Open PVP area'

Unread post by aaron22 »

Young Werther wrote:Anyone remember this? viewtopic.php?f=10&t=48211

I was looking forward to seeing where this went but nuffin' come of it. Sadly I don't think any of this will either.
Prolly got nixed by the PvP is ooc wagon. Haters 8-)
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