Open question to team evil/morally questionable

[Ghost]

I did, after a month I sent a reminder, do I have to send a reminder of a reminder?

Sometimes yes. Preferably much sooner too. We usually suggest a week.

A drow who asked us for help on the surface with multiple tattoos representing demons and spiders, definitely a paldin lol

Not sure what point you are making here. There were three organisations: The titanfist - Duergar, led by their new king, many of which were devouted to the Lawful Evil Deep Duerra; the Illithids following the ulitharid Scperxatl, mindflayers usually being Lawful Evil too; and the Company of the Blue Lanters, lead by the sapphire-half dragon* Morex Ulharaurix, allied with the ibrandulyn order known as the Knights Fallen, and a small group of Eilistraeen drow.

There were ample opportunity for supporting an evil outcome. But practically no one did.

* Sapphire dragons are always Lawful Neutral, and thus their half-blood offspring is as well. Sapphire dragons further live mostly in the underdark, and despise many of the evils there.

[Moridin]

I don't think anyone team evil tried to get involved in the Rockrun plot as in helping the evil factions until two or three weeks before its conclusion, after others had put months in. The only other attempt to do so was by a new Duergar faction at the start that had almost no player interest.

[DM Soulcatcher]

I don't think anyone team evil tried to get involved in the Rockrun plot as in helping the evil factions until two or three weeks before its conclusion, after others had put months in.

Fact: We have had months with 0 requests from both good-aligned groups and evil-aligned ones regarding the Rockrun plot.

[DaloLorn]

I don't think anyone team evil tried to get involved in the Rockrun plot as in helping the evil factions until two or three weeks before its conclusion, after others had put months in.

Fact: We have had months with 0 requests from both good-aligned groups and evil-aligned ones regarding the Rockrun plot.

Yeah, that tracks.

Though... not even KH? Did they drop off after routing the duergar?

[Moridin]

I don't think anyone team evil tried to get involved in the Rockrun plot as in helping the evil factions until two or three weeks before its conclusion, after others had put months in.

Fact: We have had months with 0 requests from both good-aligned groups and evil-aligned ones regarding the Rockrun plot.

Correct. The evil side could have swooped in during that time and undid what we had been doing previously.

[Rhifox]

I don't think anyone team evil tried to get involved in the Rockrun plot as in helping the evil factions until two or three weeks before its conclusion, after others had put months in. The only other attempt to do so was by a new Duergar faction at the start that had almost no player interest.

I personally avoided it as I didn't want to overstep on a UD plot. But it seems a lot of UD people weren't interested in doing anything with it (and the one group that was, seemed to want to avoid being seen as having a hand in it so liked that the dwarves were the ones doing the main fighting).

Plus, I figured Zhents would just make trade deals with whoever won. Though eventually learned IC that the Blue Lanterns are anti-Zhent. Oh well.

[Moridin]

I don't think anyone team evil tried to get involved in the Rockrun plot as in helping the evil factions until two or three weeks before its conclusion, after others had put months in. The only other attempt to do so was by a new Duergar faction at the start that had almost no player interest.

I personally avoided it as I didn't want to overstep on a UD plot. But it seems a lot of UD people weren't interested in doing anything with it (and the one group that was, seemed to want to avoid being seen as having a hand in it so liked that the dwarves were the ones doing the main fighting).

Plus, I figured Zhents would just make trade deals with whoever won. Though eventually learned IC that the Blue Lanterns are anti-Zhent. Oh well.

I wasn't meaning to point fingers at the Zhents. It was a plot geared to the Underdark, and most Underdark characters did nothing about it for the longest time. The Eilistraeeans even dropped the ball but were involved at the start. Note: My main character is part of the Eilistraeeans and my backup is a Zau'afin so is team evil. I'm even throwing shade at myself.

[Camila]

When you have to come here and defend yourself with words that no one believes rather than actions that prove things.

[Rhifox]

Regarding the LA - DH situation, I asked several times for a scheduled event to be able to be all there since we are a microfraction and I had no answer yet, you were there Rhifox and the answer is always to send PM on the forum to the staff, honestly I prefer to do RP in game and not spend time sending and waiting for answers through the forum, I did it and I'm doing it and I haven't seen a scheduled event yet for DH so tell me why do I've to log in, stay afk HOURS for the evil faction to log in and wait for an event like a miracle? I prefer to spend time elsewhere and log in where we actually have the faction online to do stuff.

No answer? Didn't you just say you and Leramak have been in PMs with Honk?

DH has had several scheduled events thus far. We have: negotiated with giants, negotiated with drow (both player and NPCs), negotiated with orcs, negotiated with the black dragon, negotiated with dwarves, done a sacrifice event, and negotiated with Fzoul. That, plus all of the PM requests and responses we've been doing (which I've been trying to keep forwarded to everyone, but the first few weeks were just between DH and DMs).

Zau'afin have a scheduled event for tonight. I am going to be working with Honk on scheduling an event in the next week or two now that my army is finally out on the surface and we actually finally have the opportunity to do some raids that can take place in-game. Sel and Honk were planning on an event at Darkhold, but there hasn't been any date or time set up for that yet.

As far as in-game RP, I've done some with some Zau'afin people, such as Zar'shalee. Unfortunately I can't idle as much in-game for RP as I'd like as doing developer work requires me to use a dev hak folder so I can't be both using the toolset and online in-game at the same time. Otherwise, yes, I would be sitting afk for hours in-game so I could be available for RP when it happens.

Everyone prefers doing RP in-game and not spending time on the forum. But that is not how schedules work. And DMs need time to prepare -- for a 4 hour session in actual pen-and-paper, that DM is spending the rest of the week preparing for it, while players are handling their downtime and between-session RP. That is what forum RP represents: downtime and between-session RP. It is the research your character does in a library, the daily jobs they do, the stuff that doesn't work well for playing out in-game. Making a request is showing the DMs what you're doing/what you've done, telling them what you want to do, and either getting results or scheduling a time and date for a session. The responsibility is then on you to make sure to gather people for the event and make sure to constantly check up and send reminders if needed to make sure the request is answered and everything is good to go.

[Blaze]

From your post I understand that
1, I will never have personal events because between various pm and staff approval, it will take at least 1 year before we see a personal request come to life, especially if I have to send reminder reminder reminders.

2. There will hardly be fantasy and unpredictability since everything must necessarily be established through pm

3. That I should spend most of my time AFK waiting for the godsend instead of spending my time differently and having fun

4. That instead of using a much faster tool like discord and telling more people to log in for an event, it is better to do everything through the forum knowing that there is no shoutbox and there is no possibility of dialogue between player and dm

5. NWN2 is not and will NEVER be PnP, where there is a small group of players and a DM ALWAYS present. This is not PnP because there are infinite resources like gold and xp, where those who spend more time online have the opportunity to have more consumables than those who have one or two hours a day.

6. In PnP the DM design a campaign but it is the players who then take the lead, your example does not fit because it implies an exchange of information between player and the DM that should take place in game, you are literally saying that the DM prepares an event based on what they are told by the players when in PnP this is not the case, few information maybe, but it is then up to the characters to interpret what is proposed to them, not the other way.
By sending myriads of pms, you immediately make your intent known to the DMs by completely removing the surprise element, is that PnP? In my opinion it is not

[renshouj]

6. In PnP the DM design a campaign but it is the players who then take the lead, your example does not fit because it implies an exchange of information between player and the DM that should take place in game, you are literally saying that the DM prepares an event based on what they are told by the players when in PnP this is not the case, few information maybe, but it is then up to the characters to interpret what is proposed to them, not the other way.
By sending myriads of pms, you immediately make your intent known to the DMs by completely removing the surprise element, is that PnP? In my opinion it is not

I mean, when I DM PnP I very much ask my players what they intend their next steps to be? And plan around it? Not to grant them their every wish, but to know what they want to do so I can create a more compelling story and environment. So idk, I think we have different expectations. And like you said, this aint PnP, DMs cant and arent online 24/7, so communicating and scheduling shtuff through forums is very necessary. Misinformation and miscommunication aren't fun

[AsuraKing]

I'm going to chime in once more with my input on a few topics that have been recurring.

PC vs Player involvement
A lot of comments have been about how evils/goods avoiding each other is practical and all that, this I completely agree with. The biggest issue however is it drastically shifts from 'Goodguy-A leaving the area due to Badguy-B showing up due to legit RP reasons' to 'Badguy-B showing up and everyone leaves the area, resulting in Badguy-B being unable to find rewarding RP'. This has been a MAJOR issue for me for the past year and a half since most of Team Evil left the server for various reasons forcing me to have to mingle with opposite alignment folks. Do I have a perfect fix for this? Absolutely not, but I encourage everyone to at least give their IC enemies some RP to enjoy even if it's conflict. I personally would take a hostile debate or accusations any day of the week over being shunned as a pariah unable to find any RP what-so-ever. Heck, even the most anti-zhent/banite PC (from my experience) Sean would actively seek to provide some amount of RP if he saw me lurking about trying to find interaction. We dont care for polite conversation or becoming best friends IC, all we want is some form of RP interaction.

Supposed server bias towards good?
I wont lie or even attempt to mask the fact, a LOT of evil players feel theres some form of bias against the evil players/factions. While it's clear at request such attention can be received (see Rhifox's post above) I think the reason it feels this way is not a lot of 'random spur of the moment' type stuff really ever happens around evil folks. In all my years here, I can tell you outside of major plot events, I have seen (personal experience here, im sure I miss out on some) a total of 2 random spur of the moment type things happening for evil folks. Now im not blaming DMs here, it's expected they'd enjoy hosting things for where the larger populations are (server 1) but perhaps just bring a little bit more random 'life' to around evil folks/areas (Soubar for example has remained super stale for a very long time)? Now I pointed fingers at DMs (sorry) but they're not the only cause of this feeling of bias, the general player base is equally to blame IMO, as I stated above people tend to shun evil characters/players leaving them out of RP. I have been told Im not welcome to attend events on Barry just about as much (if not more so) than Ive been able to attend events, as stated above sure this can ICly make sense, but OOC it hurts and leaves people not wanting to play. We're all here to have fun, so please please please try and come up with ways to involve your IC enemies rather than shun them.

TLDR
We're all here for fun, try not to shun the player for the character's design and overall lets try to be more inclusive with other players even if IC it's hostile.

[Blaze]

Not sure what point you are making here. There were three organisations: The titanfist - Duergar, led by their new king, many of which were devouted to the Lawful Evil Deep Duerra; the Illithids following the ulitharid Scperxatl, mindflayers usually being Lawful Evil too; and the Company of the Blue Lanters, lead by the sapphire-half dragon* Morex Ulharaurix, allied with the ibrandulyn order known as the Knights Fallen, and a small group of Eilistraeen drow.

There were ample opportunity for supporting an evil outcome. But practically no one did.

The titanfists were killed completely by KH dwarves in no time, immediately taking away the opportunity to ally with them.

The mindflyers sent thralls into the Troll Claws, which means they could have done the same in the tradeway and that would have resulted in a disrupt of trade.A PC with 6 int and 2 wis would have definitely allied with them.

The Blue Lanterns were the only option and alternative, although my initial plan with Galliard was to ally with them, wait for them to fight the mind flyers and wait for whoever emerged victorious, immediately after crushing the weakened forces of the Blue Lanterns or Mindflyers and take complete control of Rockrun, this idea was proposed to the Zau'afin but then that letter from Morex came out and it all went up in smoke (at least for the Blackrose)

[Rhifox]

1, I will never have personal events because between various pm and staff approval, it will take at least 1 year before we see a personal request come to life, especially if I have to send reminder reminder reminders.

It will only take "at least 1 year before you see a personal request come to life" if you are not sending in reminders and making sure to stay on top of it. But if you let it hang, the DMs are going to move on to people who are being more proactive -- not because they are trying to "ignore" you, but because there are so many other requests needing to get handled (we have like two dozen requests/active plots going on right now, and that's ignoring followups).

There will hardly be fantasy and unpredictability since everything must necessarily be established through pm

Just like in pnp, PMs are about handling downtime and between-session actions. That does not mean that formative, important choices won't happen in live DM'ed events (or even just player-to-player).

3. That I should spend most of my time AFK waiting for the godsend instead of spending my time differently and having fun

Not should. Only that if no one is logging in, there won't be RP. If there's no RP happening, then no one has a reason to log in. And if no one has a reason to log in, there's no one to DM for. It's a cycle.

4. That instead of using a much faster tool like discord and telling more people to log in for an event, it is better to do everything through the forum knowing that there is no shoutbox and there is no possibility of dialogue between player and dm

There can be a mix of both. You send in the request to get the INITIAL STAGE going. To get the plot and arc approved and begin planning out the details. Once you have that set up, then you can get into more direct communication for scheduling followup events. For example, DM Honk being in the Zhent Discord or DM Ghost in the Underdark Discord, or the creation of plot channels in DM Screen. These happen *after* a request is approved and closer communication is needed.

But to get to that stage, you have to put in the initial request and/or followup.

Several events I have done have been done 'on the spot', with asking a DM directly 'hey can we do a thing at X time today?' or 'hey I've got a question about X related to this plot'. But that is only after the plot has been going on for awhile and you have established a connection with the DM.

5. NWN2 is not and will NEVER be PnP, where there is a small group of players and a DM ALWAYS present. This is not PnP because there are infinite resources like gold and xp, where those who spend more time online have the opportunity to have more consumables than those who have one or two hours a day.

Which is exactly why forum work is so important. Because that is the only way to be sure that a DM can see and know what you are doing. You can't expect them to be watching your every in-game action. So you have to use forums to communicate stuff. They can't be there all the time.

6. In PnP the DM design a campaign but it is the players who then take the lead, your example does not fit because it implies an exchange of information between player and the DM that should take place in game, you are literally saying that the DM prepares an event based on what they are told by the players when in PnP this is not the case, few information maybe, but it is then up to the characters to interpret what is proposed to them, not the other way.
By sending myriads of pms, you immediately make your intent known to the DMs by completely removing the surprise element, is that PnP? In my opinion it is not

Requests are two-way, too, as said above. Once your request is approved and you're working with a DM more directly, then you can bounce things back and forth in PMs or talks over Discord or whatever. But once again, to get to that point you have to reach out to the DM team with what you want to do, first, so the ball can get rolling.

[Almarea90]

From your post I understand that
1, I will never have personal events because between various pm and staff approval, it will take at least 1 year before we see a personal request come to life, especially if I have to send reminder reminder reminders.

2. There will hardly be fantasy and unpredictability since everything must necessarily be established through pm

3. That I should spend most of my time AFK waiting for the godsend instead of spending my time differently and having fun

4. That instead of using a much faster tool like discord and telling more people to log in for an event, it is better to do everything through the forum knowing that there is no shoutbox and there is no possibility of dialogue between player and dm

5. NWN2 is not and will NEVER be PnP, where there is a small group of players and a DM ALWAYS present. This is not PnP because there are infinite resources like gold and xp, where those who spend more time online have the opportunity to have more consumables than those who have one or two hours a day.

6. In PnP the DM design a campaign but it is the players who then take the lead, your example does not fit because it implies an exchange of information between player and the DM that should take place in game, you are literally saying that the DM prepares an event based on what they are told by the players when in PnP this is not the case, few information maybe, but it is then up to the characters to interpret what is proposed to them, not the other way.
By sending myriads of pms, you immediately make your intent known to the DMs by completely removing the surprise element, is that PnP? In my opinion it is not

1. Personal requests take time, but everyone has to wait not just evil aligned toons. I waited four or five months for mine and I am NG. Granted I am by all means not complaining about that as I understand that this is due to the limited numbers of DM and there's people who asked before me.

2. I appreciate that unpredictability is part of the fun, but DM events require maps and NPCs to be prepared. How can someone do that if they don't know where you are going and who you wish to speak with?

3. Such is the nature of the game. When we log there is no guarantee that there will be a dm logged and that they will be available to interact with you and again this is valid for everyone not just evil toons. I log on for two hours a day. Sometimes I sit in Candlekeep and other players come to RP if they don't I just do forum work. If I'm bored I just see who is logged and where and seek RP myself. It might not be ideal, but I honestly can't think of a solution that would solve this and would at the same time be fair to everyone.

4. I am unsure whether the solution would be using discord instead of the forum as there still would be a queue due to too many requests for too few DMs. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to use discord just as scheduling tool, as long as this becomes the tool for everyone else and as long as this doesn't replace the forum for archiviation purposes (like books of the library, archives, reports and the like that would be lost in discord). As I see it, even if discord became the new official system and you request an event, it is unlikely that you would receive an immediate answer because there would be a queue of people who posted before you and it's even less likely that the DM would immediately log to set up an event for the same reason.

5. That is true, but again how would you make this more fair to everyone? All I can say is that being mechanically strong or rich doesn't mean having more RP.

6. About your last point I am unsure how this can be sorted. How is the DM team supposed to know what you did if no PM is sent to them? True they can see it in game if they are on, but this would be unfair to those who can't be on at the same time as the DM because nobody would see them.