Community Proposal : Weightless Rings & Scrolls

[renshouj]

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Increase the vendor scrolls higher than crafted ones.

and potions lol

[BloodRiot]

I would prefer to tackle this matter by messing with the effect of Str on carry weight. Right now a low Str pc can barelly carry the weight of his own body, while a high Str user seems to be able to carry an entire armory worth of weapons and armor and all his fallen comrades back to town without breaking a sweat.

Perhaps this would be best fixed by upping the low end allowance while reducing the upper end.
If bags are introduced, a bit of weight reduction (not full negation) would also be nice maybe.

Increase of scroll and potion stacks could be nice though.

Also do agree there are many spells, but currently only a handfull are actually used regularly.

Instead of spells requiring spell components how about making it so scrolls do? Cant be a jack of all trades then.

Assuming casting component costs becomes a thing:
You should not pay for component cost on cast from a scroll, potion, etc. This would mean the user would be charged several times more than a crafter.
Crafter casts once to create an item. Then user would pay each use, which for potions and scrolls, sure it's 1 to 1, but for wands, users would be paying up to 50 times per wand load. what about items with cast use per day? do these count too?

Proper component cost for crafted scrolls, potions, wands and whatever would be the Crafter pays once to craft item, then passes that cost to the buyer by adding it to the total crafting cost and profit margin.

Increase the vendor scrolls higher than crafted ones.

This is a matter that probably needs to happen regardless of this weightless question. Crafters currently are pretty much undercut by npc traders by a considerable margin. It's been a while but I believe I saw some if not all instances where the npc vendor can sell below the pc crafter crafting cost. Which means the only use a pc crafter currently have is to provide for scrolls or potions that aren't available in stores. And stores do carry the most generally useful ones.

And before anyone says it, you should not remove them from vendors, not with the game currently built around the absolute need for having them.

[Grendunor]

I would prefer to tackle this matter by messing with the effect of Str on carry weight. Right now a low Str pc can barelly carry the weight of his own body, while a high Str user seems to be able to carry an entire armory worth of weapons and armor and all his fallen comrades back to town without breaking a sweat.

Perhaps this would be best fixed by upping the low end allowance while reducing the upper end.
If bags are introduced, a bit of weight reduction (not full negation) would also be nice maybe.

Having such carry weight is the point of the near mythical strength scores and a reason to invest in the skill beyond flat attack bonus for melee weapons. Lowering the upper end of strength scores carry weight is not sensible in a game balance sense, nor is bolstering the carry weight of lower end scores.

A better solution is to lower the weight on items like scrolls and wands, to be more in line with what they should be. Though I am firmly against the idea of adding weight to arrows and bolts because of the nature of our table.

Archers need to carry excessive quivers to make up for both inflated mob HP and the re-spawning nature of encounters. Making them pay for that by adding weight would be back-to-front design for purpose.

[BloodRiot]

Having such carry weight is the point of the near mythical strength scores and a reason to invest in the skill beyond flat attack bonus for melee weapons. Lowering the upper end of strength scores carry weight is not sensible in a game balance sense, nor is bolstering the carry weight of lower end scores.

A better solution is to lower the weight on items like scrolls and wands, to be more in line with what they should be. Though I am firmly against the idea of adding weight to arrows and bolts because of the nature of our table.

Archers need to carry excessive quivers to make up for both inflated mob HP and the re-spawning nature of encounters. Making them pay for that by adding weight would be back-to-front design for purpose.

I do not wish to negate the value of having high strength and the downsides of having low str. However I do think regardless of what the abstract rules suggest, I do not think it's narratively satisfying to see a character, strong as they may be, able to carry several suits of plate armor, and assortment of weapons including polearms, and a dead body or two, while remaining under the encumbrance line and remaining fully combat effective.

Im definetly not saying str10 wizards should be able to carry nearly as much as a str30 barbarian, but there has to be a more sensible middle ground. to both.

I know that size and volume isn't factored into the game like it was in nwn1, and perhaps we shouldn't try to go there, however, a bit of tweaking wouldn't hurt imho.

you are free to disagree however.

[Grendunor]

I do not wish to negate the value of having high strength and the downsides of having low str. However I do think regardless of what the abstract rules suggest, I do not think it's narratively satisfying to see a character, strong as they may be, able to carry several suits of plate armor, and assortment of weapons including polearms, and a dead body or two, while remaining under the encumbrance line and remaining fully combat effective.

Im definetly not saying str10 wizards should be able to carry nearly as much as a str30 barbarian, but there has to be a more sensible middle ground. to both.

I know that size and volume isn't factored into the game like it was in nwn1, and perhaps we shouldn't try to go there, however, a bit of tweaking wouldn't hurt imho.

you are free to disagree however.

Narrative satisfaction is very much a subjective view. As for rules on carry capacity here is a link to the SRD https://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm.

The fighter holding an armoury of weapons is a trope as old as the game we can of course agree to disagree on what is satisfying to our own tastes. I personally find the lack of exhaustion for dex based characters dodging everything with lack luster constitution and strength very silly or lizards able to fly and breathe fire contrary to realism however the world is magic and to quote Tod howard "It just works"


Edit: Solution. Place more attribute points in Strength or enjoy inventory math.
Solution 2: Make friends with a strength build for loot runs. ask them nicely to haul your heavy loot

[zhazz]

On the topic of scrolls being expensive for casters.

What if the Scribe Scroll feat was altered to provide two versions?
One that is pretty much how it is now, incurring a decent cost, when scribing scrolls for others to use.
And one that is nearly free, when scribing scrolls for the caster to use themselves, at a higher CL/DC?

That would allow true casters to retain the functionality of extending their arsenal/options, without bankrupting them. While also giving UMD-goblins the same magic they have now, albeit still less powerful.

As for the proposal on reducing the weight of rings and scrolls overall

I'm all for it. Though I'm not sure where the issue lies with rings. Everyone uses the Waterdhavian ring plus either a Deflection or Str/Dex ring. There are a few utility rings, such as Nine Lives and the Purple Dragon Knight Ring. But who actually runs around with 10+ different rings?

On the topic of inventory management, and high strength characters being able to carry a boat-load of items.

I think it safe to say that everyone is role-playing it as them using a Bottomless Bag, or similar that allow for near-infinite storage (up to inventory size) without reducing the weight. That at least explains how they are carrying 10 suits of armor. A bit of verisimilitude (suspension of disbelief) to explain how it works.